Amakorasi y’abicanyi, Pasiteri waririye mu rusengero kubera kwica, imbabazi…Ikiganiro na Musenyeri Bilindabagabo

Yanditswe na Philbert Girinema
Kuya 2 Gicurasi 2019 saa 02:35
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Musenyeri Bilindabagabo Alexis, ni umwe mu bamaze igihe kinini mu murimo w’ivugabutumwa mu Rwanda. Usibye Thaddée Ntihindurwa wari Musenyeri wa Arikidiyosezi ya Kigali uherutse kujya mu kiruhuko, nta wundi wari umaze igihe kinini mu murimo kurusha uyu mushumba wo mu Itorero rya Angilikani.

Magingo aya amaze imyaka 29 mu buyobozi bukuru bw’itorero. Ni urugendo rukomeye aho yanyuze mu bihe bikomeye Itorero ryari mu mayira abiri kubera ibihe igihugu cyanyuzemo bya Jenoside.

Mu kiganiro aherutse kugirana na IGIHE mu gihe u Rwanda ruri mu minsi 100 yo Kwibuka ku nshuro ya 25 Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, Musenyeri Bilindabagabo yagarutse ku ruhare rw’itorero mu kubanisha neza abanyarwanda ahanini ashingiye ku buhamya bw’ubuzima bwe bwite.

Ikiganiro kirambuye na IGIHE

IGIHE: Mbere gato ya Jenoside, ubuzima bw’itorero n’ibindi bijyanye n’imyizerere nyobokamana mu Rwanda byari bihagaze gute?

Bilindabagabo: Reka mpere mu 1990 niho byumvikana. Mu 1990 amadini n’amatorero yose yagize uburangare bukomeye. Habaho igihe uba ufite umugisha ngo ugire ibyo ukora, werekane itandukaniro, ariko ntibibe.

Ni ukuvuga ngo amadini n’amatorero ibihe byose, uzagende urebe mu mateka hariho igihe abantu bahitamo kuba ikibazo mu bindi bibazo bindi hari n’igihe bahitamo kuba igisubizo.

Ni ukuvuga ngo hariho politiki mbi, yari imaze n’igihe. Amadini n’amatorero rero ntiyitandukanya n’iyo politiki mbi ahubwo amirwa nayo. Ubundi yakagombye kuba umunyu n’umucyo w’Isi nkuko tubisanga muri Matayo.

Igihe cyarageze rero umunyu urakayuka, aho kugira ngo ayo madini abe umunyu n’umucyo ahubwo ahinduka umwijima.

Ng’uko uko byatungendekeye, nabirebaga n’amaso yanjye kandi bikambabaza cyane, kuko hari abo twagiye tuvugana, hari abo nagiye mpugura, ariko ugasanga bibaye nk’agatonyanga mu nyanja y’ibibazo.

Abenshi bari bafite imyumvire mibi itewe na politiki yari ihari, y’ivangura, gukandamiza abantu, kwica, politiki y’akavuyo itarengera abantu, ntigire n’amategeko asobanutse.

IGIHE: Nk’umuntu wayoboraga diyosezi ya Cyangugu, ni nk’ibiki mwaba mwibuka by’umwihariko?

Bilindabagabo: Urugero rufatika ni igihe nagiye gutangiza Diyoseze ya Cyangugu [1991], ndabisengera, Imana itwereka ikibanza hafi y’Ikiyaga cya Kivu. Imana inyereka ko ubwo butaka igiye kubuduhereza kandi turanabubona.

Gusa uwatangaga ubutaka icyo gihe, ngiye kumubaza, aranyitegereza arambwira ngo ninjye kubaza umuyobozi w’abasirikare. Icyo yambwiraga naragisobanukiwe; kwari nko kuvuga ngo urimo urasaba ubutaka kandi wagakwiye kuba ufunze.

Icyo gihe natashye mbabaye, agahinda kanyishe. Twaragiye turasenga kandi Imana ikora ibitangaza. Mu cyumweru cyakurikiyeho nasubiyeyo nsanga yasimbuwe n’undi. Ubu ubutaka ni ubw’Itorero, Imana yabuduhaye mu buryo butangaje.

Muri uko gushaka ubutaka nagiye muri Minisiteri, hari ukuntu ndimo njyayo numvise ijwi rimbwira ngo ubanze uvugane na Ministiri, nuko ndagenda mvugana na we mubwira ko ndi musenyeri mushya wa Diyoseze ya Cyangugu ‘nti ndagushimira ko wahegereje amashanyarazi’ nti gusa narinje no kukuyoboza ngo unyereke aho nsaba ubutaka.

Minisitiri yamfashe ukuboko aranjyana arambwira ngo uriya niwe ubikora. Umugabo wari ushinzwe gutanga ubutaka icyo gihe namugeze imbere afite umujinya ntarabona kuri iyi Si, atangira kunyuka inabi, ariko kubera ko nari nzanye na Ministiri ntiyamenya aho twari duhuriye nubwo nta naho twari tuziranye.

Uwo mugabo yagize umujinya, kuri bya bipapuro bateraho kashi wagiraga ngo ninjye ari gukubita arangije arabifata ntiyabimpereza arabinterera. Tekereza kurakarira umuntu utazi, ubonye inshuro ya mbere, ngicyo igihugu twari turimo. Ibyo rero narabibonye ndavuga nti ‘turi mu bihe bitatworoheye’.

IGIHE: Kwigisha abakirisitu muri icyo gihe ngo ubumvishe ijambo ry’Imana byari bimeze bite mu gihe hari abacaga inyuma bagapfumura Kiliziya, bakanica abantu?

Bilindabagabo: Njye nabyita uburozi! Iyo umuntu yanyoye uburozi bwinshi, hari igihe ageza ugasanga kumurogora ntibyoroshye. Byasaga nko gufata ingunguru y’amazi ashyushye ukaroha mu Kivu.

Naguha urugero, hari ahantu nagiye gukomeza inshuro ebyiri muri Paruwasi, icyo gihe nari ku Kigeme, hari ibitero bakaza baririmba za ndirimbo z’amakorasi twaririmbaga turi kumwe. Ariko se wambwira ngo bari abakirisitu bameze bate?

Inshuro ebyiri nagiye gukomezayo wari kugira ngo ni isoko rihari, babaga basinze baraho, ubwose urambwira ko umupasiteri wabazanaga yabaga ameze ate? Umuntu wazanaga abantu basinze, nuramuka utabikoze biraza kukuviramo icyaha kubera ko ari uburenganzira bwe, ariko biragaraga ko wa muntu umuyoboye atamuteguye.

Ni ukuvuga ngo ni wa muntu ubeshya ngo ni umukirisitu ariko ari umupagani wa wundi warangije. Aho rero hitwaga mu Gasarenda havaga ibitero bikomeye cyane bakaza baririmba za ndirimbo z’amakorasi zimwe numvaga, agahinda kakanyica.

Guhera mu 1990 hagiye habaho uburyo bwo kwigisha no kwinangira ukanabibona, ukanabona n’abantu bitwa ko ari abayoboke b’itorero urimo badahisha urwango rubarimo, ukabona bafite Satani!

Kuva mu 1990 kugeza mu 1994, hari imvugo iteruye ariko wumvaga icyo ishatse kuvuga. Nguhaye urugero nka wa muyobozi ushinzwe iby’ubutaka wanyohereje kuri komanda, ni nko kuvuga ngo buri wese arakora akazi ke neza? Kuki atagufunze?

Njye narabyumvaga ndetse n’ahandi zabaga zihari nubwo abantu bari mu itorero. Babaga bafite bwa burozi, bategereje igihe cyuko bazakoma imbarutso ahasigaye bakagaragara uko bari!

Musenyeri Bilindabagabo yavuye imuzi uburyo amadini n'amatorero yakongeje urwangano rwaganishije kuri Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi muri Mata 1994

IGIHE: Niba nsobanukiwe neza, bajyaga kwica Abatutsi bari kuririmba amakorasi yo mu rusengero?

Bilindabagabo: Mana yanjye! Uzabaze abadiventisiti bazabikubwira, hari abakoraga bakaruhuka ku isabato.

Reka nkwibwirire iby’Abangilikani bacu nibyo nzi neza. Hari ibitero byazaga bigambiriye kunyica. Inshuro imwe baraje, bajya impaka n’uko umwe abaza bagenzi ati ‘Ariko se Abagatolika bari bica musenyeri wabo?’ Bati ‘Oya, twumvise ko akiriho’. Urumva baricaga ariko bagarura agatima ko Abagatolika bafite musenyeri ariko bo bataramwica.

Ndagira ngo nkubwire ko ku Munsi wa Pantekote, aho nari ndi nihishe ntegereje urupfu, ba bandi narabumvaga rwose bari mu rusengero baririmba.

Gusa ariko njyewe ubwanjye niboneye abana barizwa na bagenzi babo bari batwaye bagiye kubica, babura uko babigenza kuko bari bake, nta mbaraga bafite, ntibari burwane. Nabyise amarira y’abera.

Ntabwo rero abantu bose bapfiriye gushira, hari abantu bazima bari bahari, babitse ukwizera kwabo, bagerageza ibishoka byose bakagira abo bahisha ariko imbaraga ziba nyinshi kuko harimo iza Leta, igisirikare, igipolisi n’Interahamwe kandi zakoraga.

IGIHE: Ko mwahigwaga cyane, mwaje kurokoka mute?

Bilindabagabo: Inkuru zanjye ni ndende. Hari agatabo nanditse kitwa ‘Rescued by angels’. Habayeho ba malayika kuko njye nabuze aho nihisha. Namaze amezi atatu yose Imana ikora ibitangaza.

Nta muntu wakubwira ngo ni njye wabikoze, ni ibitangaza by’Imana. Twabuze aho twihisha. Hari igihe natekereje kwihisha, ariko hari abantu nari nzi bihishe, ndatekereza nti ningerageza kwihisha baradushaka bitume n’abandi bababona. Ndatekereza nti mureke tugume aha dutegereze, turajya mu i juru nta kundi.

Ndibuka hari inshuro nyinshi bazaga kunyica bakajya impaka, bakagenda. Hari ubwo baje hari amata nari narasabye ari muri kontineri, bahageze barayarwanira, ubwo uwo munsi na wo mba ndawukize.

Mu gihe natekerezaga ko ngomba kuba ndi mu Ijuru, nisanze muri Congo n’umugore n’abana bane twari dufite.

Nta kindi gisobanuro nabona nakubwira, kumara mezi atatu urindiriye, yewe n’abasirikare baje kunyijyanira, banshyira mu modoka baracana nuko batsa imodoka irahinda, hashize akanya mbona bararebanye, nuko barambwira bati sohoka turagaruka.

Ubwo umugore yari amaze kubabwira ati ariko mwatujyanye mukatwicira hamwe, bati ‘sohoka turagaruka’. Hanyuma tubona baribwirije, bati vamo.

Hari n’indege yoherejwe n’uwari Minisitiri w’Ingabo, iraza igwa aho, nanone barashwana. Col. Rusatira n’abaje kutujyana barwashanye.

Tekereza kuba ufite imyaka 39, ukandika irage ryawe kuko uba utazi niba uzaba uriho. Nta kigaragaza ko twagombaga kubaho cyariho. Ni uko ndabyandika, ngumaho ndategereza n’umugore n’abana, Imana iza kutubundikira n’ikiganza cyayo.

IGIHE: Irage wanditse mu 1994 ryarimo ubuhe butumwa ku bana bawe?

Bilindabagabo: Ryari irage riteye ukwaryo kuko sinari mfite n’abo kuraga kuko urumva abo nakaraze bari bashize, abana na bo twari gupfana. Hari aho navugaga nti ‘bazashakishe kanaka uba muri Kenya cyangwa uba Uganda bamuhe ibi ngibi, n’aba atabonetse bazabihereze itorero’.

IGIHE: Nyuma ya Jenoside, guhuza imiryango y’abakirisitu bishe n’abarokotse byo wabyifashemo gute?

Bilindabagabo: Icyo ni ikintu gikomeye uhereye ku muntu ku giti cye kuko na we gukira igikomere ni birebire. Uwo ubonye wese ushobora kumwitiranya, ukaba wamwita umwicanyi kandi bitagombye kubaho.

Njye kwizera kwanjye kwangiriye umumaro cyane. Kubabarira abanyiciye, nabishobojwe no kureba Yesu ari ku musaraba yicwa azizwa ubusa.

Abamwishe ni abo yagaburiye, abo yakirije abantu, abo yagiriye neza, abo yigishije, ni bo bamutwaye ku musaraba.

Byanyibukije umuntu wishe mama ngo yamutemye amubwira ngo ntazongere kumugaburira, kuko yagiraga ubuntu cyane, abantu yarabakoreshaga, akaguhemba amafaranga akaguha nibyo utwara mu rugo. Abo yagiriraga neza ni bo bamwishe.

Nzi neza ko ababyeyi banjye nta muntu bakoreshaga ngo bareke kumuhemba. Nta kintu rero yaba yaramuhoye. Ntushakire mu bandi, abo twagiye tugirira neza nibo baduhindukiranye baratwica.

Ikintu cyangiriye akamaro ni uko nabonye ko Imana inyongereye iminsi yo kubaho; natangiye kwibaza nti ko ndiho, umuhamagaro wanjye ni uwuhe.

Numva ijwi rimbwira riti, hari abana bandagaye b’imfubyi, uyu niwo murimo ugiye gukora. Noneho muri kwa gusanga ba bana, icya mbere naje gusanga hari abagiriwe nabi birenze ibyo umuntu atekereza.

Muri ya gahunda yo kwihutira kugerageza gufasha abana, Imana yanyomoye ibikomere, iramvura kandi inyereka n’umuhamagaro wo kunga abantu, kubegereza Imana no kutitiranya icyaha n’uwagikoze.

Kwiyunga rero ntabwo ari ikintu cyoroshye. Ni ikintu cyagombwa. Ni ikintu gishoboka, ariko si ikintu cyoroshye. Ni ukujya kumusara kuvuga ukuri, kandi si ibintu byoroshye ariko birashoboka.

Musenyeri Bilindabagabo avuga ko kurokoka kwe ari igitangaza cy'Imana

IGIHE: Nyuma gato ya Jenoside, ntibyigeze bikubaho ko ujya nko kubwiriza ngo wumve ucitse intege?

Bilindabagabo: Reka nkubwire igihe nigeze kugira intege nke. Hari umunsi umwe nagize ikibazo, narimo mvuga ubutumwa noneho mbona abantu bicaye imbere yanjye barasunikana barwanira intebe, ndavuga nti ese aba bantu bari imbere yanjye ni abakirisitu? Abarwanira intebe bataguze, ubahaye imipanga ntibamarana? Numvise muri njye binyobeye, ndavuga nti ese ibi turimo dukora ni ibiki?

Nti aba nibo bantu mfite, nibo bakirisitu mfite, ariko mu mutima numva ngize kwihana nti reka dukomeze twigihse ahari hari aho twazagera. Ndabyibuka nk’aho ari ejo kandi icyo gihe yari mu 1996. Ariko byanteye ikibazo.

IGIHE: Ni iki wumva wasiga nk’umurage ku bazumva amateka y’ibyo wanyuzemo?

Bilindabagabo: Ikintu yanyibukiraho ni uko nakundaga Imana, nkakunda abo yaremye, nkakunda igihugu cyanjye. Ni icyo numva uzumva n’izina ryanjye yazamenya mu gihe nzaba ntakiriho.

Gukunda Imana bimpa gukunda abanyarwanda, ntacyo nakora cyabagirira nabi, hanyuma rero birumvikana nkakunda n’igihugu cyanjye.

IGIHE: Mu myaka 25 ishize, ubona ari uruhe ruhare amadini yagize mu kubanisha neza abanyarwanda? Ese yabishobojwe ni iki?

Bilindabagabo: Reka mvugishe ukuri, abantu bagize kwihana by’ukuri bicara hasi, bakajya imbere y’Imana bakagira bati Mana ibi hari uruhare nabigizemo?

Hariho igihe abantu babeshya bagashaka kurenzaho ariko kurenzaho ntacyo bitanga kuko imitima iba iganira. Iyo ugiye imbere y’umuntu warengejeho, umutima we uba uzi neza ko ibyo akubwira atari byo.

Ariko aho hatangiye kwihana mu bayobozi b’amadini ubwabo, bakagambirira gukora nk’abantu b’Imana, byatangiye gutanga umusaruro.

IGIHE: Hari urugero waba uzi rw’umupasiteri wihannye akemera ko yishe akabohora benshi?

Bilindabagabo: Reka nguhe urugero ruto cyane rw’umuntu nzi neza. Ni umuntu twakoranye cyane ku buryo numvise ko yishe numva mbuze uko mbifata.

Yari yarabaye umu catéchiste muri paruwasi nayoboraga, ngiye kumva numva ngo yaricanye, yica umuntu banasenganaga, bari baziranye w’umurokore.

Naje kumenya uko byamugendekeye. Ngo baraje baramuzenguruka bamuha ubuhiri ngo ntiyaje kumenya uko yishe wa muntu, ni n’umuntu yari yanahishe.

Mu kwa munani 1994, baramubwira ngo dore nta pasteri uhari noneho ba ari wowe uyobora Paruwasi. Ajyayo icyumweru cya mbere arihambira, aravuga, ariko icyumweru cya kabiri ahagaze imbere y’abantu araturika ararira.

Bati ese uyu muntu arasaze, ati oya ni ibyaha byanjye, ati ‘Imana inyeretse ibyaha byanjye’, ati kandi namwe ibyanyu murabizi, ati ‘njye sinshobora kujya kuvuga ubutumwa ahubwo ngiye kujya kwihana’.

Ajya ku muntu wari wacitse ku icumu, uwo mukecuru yari yarishe na nyirasenge, ajyayo, umugoroba yari afite aho ahurira n’ibintu by’ubucuti abwira umugore ati mperekeza, baragenda bagezeyo bamuhaye intebe yanga kwicara ku ntebe yicara hasi. Bati ese wasaze? Ati oya, ati njye ndi umwicanyi nta mwicanyi wicara kuntebe.

Urumva umugore we n’abari aho bose, ibintu biba bihindutse akavuyo. Aravuga ati mwanyica, mwagira mute ati ahubwo simpagarira hano. Ku wa mbere arigemura, ajya kuri pariki arababwira ati nje kwigemura naricanye, nuko abatekerereza uko byagenze, ati naherutse mfite ubuhiri mu ntoki, mperuka nkubita.

IGIHE: Ubona ari uwuhe murongo amadini akwiye gufata muri iki gihe kugira ngo akumire inzangano nk’izagejeje u Rwanda ahabi?

Bilindabagabo: Dukwiriye kumenya ububi bw’icyaha, kandi tugatoza abantu ko bagomba kwirinda icyaha. Icyaha gituma tutagira imiryango ifite imbaraga.

Abayoboke banarebe ko inyigisho barimo bigishwa nazo zimeze neza, kuko hari abanyamadini nabo bazana inyigisho wumva zirimo ubutekamutwe, zirimo ibintu bidasobanutse. Abigisha inyigisho nzima, nabagira inama ko bazikomeza bakigisha abantu neza kugira ngo babone n’umusaruro mwiza.


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