Ni ingingo umukuru w’igihugu yagarutseho mu kiganiro yagiranye na Al Jazeera mbere y’uko hashyirwa umukono ku masezerano y’amahoro hagati ya RDC n’u Rwanda, mu muhango wabereye i Washington D.C, ku wa 4 Ukuboza 2025.
Muri iki kiganiro cyagiye hanze mu ijoro ryo kuri iki Cyumweru, Perezida Kagame yagarutse ku ngingo zirimo icyizere afitiye mugenzi we wa RDC mu kubahiriza aya masezerano, uruhare rwa Trump mu ntambwe yatewe n’ibindi.
Ni ikiganiro Perezida Kagame yagiranye n’Umunyamakuru Steve Clemons:
Steve Clemons: Turasatira umwanya wo gisinya amasezerano akomeye na RDC na Perezida Trump, abantu bari kuyita amasezerano y’amateka, kubera iki aya masezerano ari ingenzi mu mboni z’u Rwanda?
Perezida Kagame: Inkuru ijyanye n’aya makimbirane, ifite inkomoko mu mateka ya kure, mu myaka myinshi kandi ntabwo twigeze tugira ikintu nk’iki aho hari ukwita ku bintu ku rwego nk’uru, aho Abayobozi babiri b’ibihugu bibiri: U Rwanda na Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Congo bahura na Perezida wa Leta Zunze Ubumwe za Amerika, witaye cyane kuri iki kibazo.
Imbaraga zashyizwe mu kumenyekanisha iki kibazo, umuhate wenda n’igitutu cyo gukemura iki kibazo ni ibintu bitigeze bibaho mbere. Ndetse n’ibiherwaho mu gukemura iki kibazo nabyo ni ibintu bidasanzwe, bireba ibintu by’ingenzi, niba umuntu ashaka gukemura aya makimbirane ahereye ku kumva impamvu muzi, ariko anubakiye ku bindi bintu bitatu byagaragajwe aribyo ibijyanye na politike, umutekano ndetse n’ubukungu. Ntekereza ko bikubiyemo ibintu byose, igisigaye ni ishyirwa mu bikorwa, aha niho buri gihe havukira ibibazo.
Ni iki gitandukanye kuri iyi nshuro, aho Trump n’ubuyobozi bwe bari kubigiramo uruhare?
Navuga ko hari ibintu bibiri bitandukanye, icya mbere ni aho ibivugwa bigaruka cyane, isano iri hagati yabo n’ibibazo bya Afurika ibyo nabyo ukabishyira mu murongo mugari w’ibyo tuzi ku bijyanye n’uburyo Isi iyobowe cyangwa ibyo tumaze igihe twaramenyereye, amagambo atagira ibikorwa agaruka ku bintu bitandukanye, demokarasi, ukwishyira ukizana, uburenganzira bwa muntu n’ibindi.
Ariko mu myaka myinshi ishize twabonye ibi bihera mu magambo, byagera mu bikorwa ntubone hari icyo bihindura mu mibereho y’ibihugu byinshi cyangwa mu buzima bw’abaturage b’umugabane wacu.
Ku rundi ruhande hari ubundi buryo bwo kwita cyane ku bifatika nk’ubucuruzi, inyungu zitandukanye mu by’ubukungu n’uburyo bihindura ubuzima bw’abaturage, kwita ku bintu byangombwa… nk’uko abantu babivuze urebye mu buryo bwo guhererekanya ibintu, ni iki utanga, ni iki uhabwa, umusaruro ni uwuhe? Ibyo bituma byoroha gupima icyo ukura mu biganiro ibyo aribyo byose.
Ntekereza ko nshingiye ku bitekerezo byanjye n’ubunararibonye n’ibyo twanyuzemo nk’u Rwanda cyangwa nk’akarere, nahitamo uburyo bwa kabiri, kuko mbona ko hari ibintu ubwungukiramo, ariko uburyo bwa mbere navuze rimwe na rimwe hari igihe bwongera ibibazo bigomba gukemurwa, gukemura icyo kibazo nabyo bikaba ikintu kiba aho by’iteka ryose, ariko wareba ibiri kuba cyangwa wabaza abantu n’ibyo banyuramo bakakubwira ko ubuzima bwabo butigeze buhinduka, rimwe na rimwe ahubwo bikaba byararushijeho kuzamba.
Ntabwo ari ibintu nshaka kwinjiramo cyane kubera ko nanone nzi kandi numva ko inshingano zikomeye ziri kuri twe, nitwe tuzatuma amahirwe ahari atubyarira umusaruro cyangwa ayo mahirwe yabura tugomba gushaka uburyo bwo gukora iby’ingenzi kuri twe.
Ntabwo buri gihe mba nshaka kugaragaza uwakoze amakosa, rimwe na rimwe hari n’igihe baba bafite uruhare runini muri ayo makosa, ariko ugasanga n’urwo ruhare wenda rwatijwe umurindi no kwihunza inshingano mu gukemura ibibazo byacu no kwirengera inshingano zacu nk’uko bigomba. Ariko twirengagije ibyo byose, ntawe nshaka kugerekaho amakosa.
Kuri ubu Trump yinjiye muri Afurika, yaba ashaka guhindura ibintu, hagamijwe inyungu z’ubukungu bwa Amerika no gushimwa nk’uwaharaniye amahoro?
Kuba Perezida Trump yarafashe umwanya, bikaba ibintu bimushishikaje, akadutumira n’abandi bayobozi bazaba nk’abahamya ndetse bagize uruhare mu biganiro mbere; ntekereza ko ibyo ari ibintu umuntu yamushimira.
Ibindi bibazo byinshi biri kuvugwa cyangwa bigaragazwa n’abantu batandukanye, byaba bifite ishingiro cyangwa ntaryo bifite, ndashaka kwibanda ahantu ntekereza ko dufite amahirwe kandi hakemura ibibazo dufite uyu munsi.
Urundi ruhande rw’ingenzi ni Qatar, muri ibi byose hari ibiganiro bibiri. Amerika yakoraga ku bijyanye n’ibihugu byombi, Qatar yo igafasha cyane mu bijyanye n’imbere mu gihugu, wadusobanurira uko ibi bikora, kuko bisa nk’uburyo bwo kujyanirana ibintu budasanzwe.
Mbere na mbere ni amahirwe ko twabashije gutandukanya ibi bintu. Ibiganiro bijyanye n’ibibazo by’imbere (muri RDC) byagiye muri Qatar, ibyo byaje nyuma y’inama yampuje na Perezida Tshisekedi i Doha, ariko biturutse ku busabe bwe no kuri Amerika nabyo byari ubusabe bwe.
Mu by’ukuri abandi bayobozi ba Afurika n’ibihugu bashyiraga amakosa k’u Rwanda, batekereza ko aritwe twikuye muri gahunda y’ibiganiro bigizwemo uruhare na Afurika, tujya muri Qatar cyangwa hano i Washington, ariko ni Tshisekedi wa RDC wabigizemo uruhare, ariko kuri we yari afite icyizere ko ashobora kugena imigendekere y’ibiganiro bya Qatar cyangwa ibiganiro by’i Washington D.C, agamije inyungu ze kubera ko atekereza ko RDC ari igihangange, ari nini, ku buryo Isi yose ishaka gufata igice runaka mu byo itunze, ku buryo yagenda yishyura ndetse agakoresha abantu kugira ngo agere ku musaruro yifuzaga.
Ubwo byatugeragaho ndetse tugatumirwa yaba i Doha na hano Washington, buri gihe twaritabaga ariko tukabwira abantu ibyo twatekerezaga nk’ukuri n’ibibazo by’ingenzi bigomba gukemurwa, mu gihe dushatse kwita ku mpamvu muzi.
Uko ni ko byatangiye tubona AFC/M23 i Doha mu biganiro na Guverinoma, hano ho yari RDC iganira n’u Rwanda, ariko biri no mu murongo w’akarere, ni yo mpamvu hari abayobozi bahamagawe nk’abahamya.
Ibyo RDC yari yatekereje ko izagena uko bigenda byarangiye bitandukanyijwe kugira ngo hatagira ikintu cy’ingenzi kiducika.
Ku bw’ibya Doha ni ingenzi cyane, Qatar yagize uruhare rwo guhuriza hamwe impande zihanganye, bitari mu karere kacu gusa, uzi ibindi bice aho bagiye bagira uruhare rukomeye, kandi bakomeje kubikora. Babishyiramo ubushake ndetse bafite n’amikoro yo kubikora […] Twishimiye ko ibi bintu biri kugenda.
Mugiye gusinya amasezerano na Perezida Trump na Perezida Tshisekedi, ajyanye n’ibibazo bireba igihugu. Wizera ubushobozi bwa Tshisekedi bwo gushyira ku murongo ibiri kuba byose mu Burasirazuba bwa RDC?
Ntekereza ko turi hano, ndetse twemeranya gusinya amasezerano yo gukemura ikibazo, icyo ni ingenzi cyane kandi ni intambwe ya mbere ikwiriye guterwa, hari andi masezerano yabashije kugerwaho i Doha muri Qatar, ibyo ni ingenzi. Bivuze ko turi kugerageza gutera indi ntambwe yo kwinjira mu kindi cyiciro, kandi niho hari sekibi muri ibyo byose, ariko ibyo byose tuzahangana nabyo uko twigira imbere.
Turi hano, tugiye gusinya amasezerano. Nizera ko Qatar na Amerika bizakomeza guherekeza ibi biganiro bikareba ibiri kuba nk’uko biri, kandi nizere ko nibasanga u Rwanda arirwo rufite amakosa, bazabivuga, batwegere, batubwire bati mwagakwiriye kuba mukora ibi, ibi ntabwo aribyo twemeranyije, kandi twizeye ko ibyo ari nako bizagenda kuri RDC, kuko twagize ibihe aho RDC igera aho yemeranya ibintu n’impande zitandukanye zirimo natwe, umunsi ukurikiyeho nyuma yo kwemeranya, bakavuga ibintu kandi ntibyabaye rimwe, kabiri, gatatu, ahubwo byabaye kenshi.
Turabizi ko ari ibintu tugomba guhangana nabyo, turabizi ko bishobora kubaho cyane, ariko ntabwo bikwiriye kudukura mu cyerekezo turimo kandi gifite intangiriro nziza kandi tugomba gukomeza, intambwe ku yindi Tuzakomeza kureba icyo dukwiriye gukora.
Ihangana kuri ubu rihari rikomeye muri Amerika ni ihangana n’u Bushinwa ku bijyanye n’amabuye y’agaciro, umutekano n’ubukungu. Kandi ndabizi ko igice kinini cy’umubano uri kuzamuka wanyu na Amerika ni amabuye y’agaciro, mutunganya tungsten, tin n’andi. Mwitwara gute bije muri iki kibazo cy’inyungu z’ubutegetsi bwa Trump muri uku guhanganira amabuye y’agaciro n’ibibazo by’ubucuruzi?
Ntabwo ndibuvuge cyane ku ihangana rihari hirya no hino ku Isi, ibyo birenze ubushobozi bwanje[…] nagukorera ubusesenguzi ubundi ngakomeza, ariko ntabwo ndibutakaze umwanya wanjye kuri ibyo. Ndashaka kwibanda kuri iki kibazo dufite mu karere kacu, kizamo ibihugu byose byo mu karere kacu, ariko by’umwihariko u Rwanda na RDC.
Abantu hari ibintu bemeye bitari ukuri ko ibintu byose bizwi ko RDC ikungahayeho biri muri RDC gusa nta handi. Niba uvuze ku mabuye y’agaciro ari mu Rwanda kandi koko arahari, abantu bazavuga bati oya, aya ntabwo ari ay’u Rwanda, ni ayo muri RDC.
Nk’uko wabivuze yaba tungsten, tin, tantalum, ibi byose mu Rwanda birahari ndetse bihambaye mu bwiza kurenza ibyo ushobora kubona mu bindi bice. Nka Tungsten, ntekereza ko turi aba kane ku Isi, niba tutari aba mbere muri Afurika, kandi aya mabuye turayatunganya.
Ibi twabimenye mu myaka ishize, ubwo twari dufite ikigo gikomoka muri Amerika, Trinity Metals, cyakoze ubushakashatsi ndetse gishora imari by’igihe kirekire, gicukura ndetse kigahora cyongera ingano y’ibyo gitunganyiriza imbere mu gihugu.
Byaragaragaye ko ibyo dufite muri uru rwego ntaho bihuriye na RDC, ni iby’u Rwanda, ndetse no mu bindi byiciro, dufite beryllium, dufite andi mabuye y’ingenzi, lithium n’andi. Ndetse dufite na zahabu, wenda Congo ifite zahabu nyinshi kurenza iyo dufite, ariko dufite zahabu, ntabwo bikwiriye kwitwa ko buri zahabu tujyanye hanze, ivuye muri RDC.
Ariko ibindi bihugu bituranye na RDC, hari ibiva muri RDC bigaca muri ibyo bihugu, byinshi cyane mu ngano kurenza ibishobora kunyura mu Rwanda, ariko buri gihe u Rwanda rushyirwa mu majwi, kandi ibyo bifite aho bihuriye n’aya makimbirane n’ibindi bibazo twagize mu mateka.
Kugerageza kugereka ibibazo ku Rwanda, ubundi ugahisha ibindi byose nk’ubufasha buhabwa FDLR […] ni ibintu kandi bifitwemo uruhare n’amahanga, iyo tuvuga ibi, ntabwo tuba tuvuga gusa u Burundi, Uganda, oya tuba tuvuga ibi bihugu binini mu Burengerazuba bw’Isi, kandi uburyo bakina umukino wo guhishira FDLR, amakuba yabaye mu Rwanda n’uburyo bagerageza gushakira impamvu ahandi, ntabwo ushobora kumva impamvu ibyo byaba.
Ibi kandi bijyana n’ibyo kwitana ba mwana ku bijyanye n’amabuye y’agaciro, kubura k’umutekano mu karere kacu, ariko iyo urebye akarere kacu kose twarinze igihugu cyacu, dukomeza kugiteza imbere kugira ngo tutaba intandaro y’umutekano muke, ntabwo wakora ibyo, ngo ariko na none ngo ushake gushyiraho ahantu hatekanye, ariko abantu buri gihe bakunda kutuzana muri ibi ku mpamvu ntumva.
Perezida Trump yivuga nk’umuntu ugerageza kuzana amahoro mu bihugu byinshi. Utekereza ko Perezida Trump, wowe na Perezida Tshisekedi mukwiriye gutekerezwaho na Komite itanga ibihembo byitiriwe Nobel?
Hahaha oya, abandi batekerezwaho, ariko atari njye. Ntabwo ntekereza ko nari nagera aho[…] ariko Trump urebye ibyo yakoze mu gihe gito akagerageza gushyira ibintu ku murongo, imbaraga yabishyizemo, azi ko bimwe muri ibi bintu udashobora kubibonera ibisubizo ku bibazo nk’ibi bikomeye nk’umuntu, ku buryo nubwo Amerika ari igihangange, nka Perezida wa Amerika udashobora gutanga umusaruro wenyine.
Iyi ni yo mpamvu mvuga gutsindwa gushobora kubizamo, amakosa azaba ari ayacu. Niba hari amakimbirane hagati y’u Rwanda na RDC, umuntu akagerageza gufasha, birangiye tutabonye igisubizo, si ntekereza ko amakosa muyashyira ku wageragezaga gufasha.
Habaho guhuza koroshye hagati yawe na Trump?
Ntekereza ko na mbere, muri manda ye ya mbere, Nkunda abantu bashaka kugera ku musaruro, ariko hari abantu benshi ku Isi bavuga ibintu byiza, bikarangira nta gikozwe, kandi babigize umuco mu gihe cy’imyaka myinshi[…] nko muri iki kibazo dufite amahirwe menshi yo kugera ku musaruro mwiza mu gukemura ibibazo mu karere kacu, no hagati ya RDC n’u Rwanda, kurenza ikindi gihe, kubera ko mbere habagaho kuvuga cyane no kwitana ba mwana, twatakaje umwanya igihe kinini, bikarangira ntacyo tugezeho.
Trump yarabifashe, kandi agaragaza intego nziza, ashaka kugerageza, ku bw’ibyo dukwiriye kubishyigikira kugira ngo bigende neza, cyane ko tuzi ko atariwe uzatanga 100% by’umusaruro, mu gihe twe bireba twicaye, tudatanga uruhare rwacu.
